Europe According to Greece. And Sunlight

Update: I got so carried away writing the text below that I forgot to mention this map is part of my Mapping Stereotypes project. Wrap it in its context, please. :)

It was about time to make a map of Europe according to Greece because as things are going, the country might disappear very soon. At least as we know it.

I think what is happening today in Greece and all Southern Mediterranean Europe can be properly described as a clash of civilizations. You’ve probably heard the statement that Greece is the cradle of Western Civilization. That’s bollocks. What we refer to Western Civilization today can be much better described as a Protestant Entrepreneur Civilization, and it definitely lies to the North, rather than the West.

Portugal, Spain, Italy and Greece have a very different tradition, one that unites them in a league of their own. The similarities are so strong they even transcend the usual Catholic vs Orthodox divide. Down here, on the shores of the Mediterranean, people don’t spend their time trying to invent ways to keep themselves busy working, so they can save enough money for a monthly vacation and escape a nasty depressing weather. Here the Sun shines quite often and people are more interested in having fun. One might argue whether too much heaven is healthy for you but the fact is undeniable.

It’s really striking how something as basic as sunlight can affect society on such a fundamental level. It’s also striking how misunderstood this correlation is. The Germans and French blame the Greeks they are lazy. That’s very true but I think if you magically could relocate the entire German nation on the Aegean islands and leave them to boil on the white rocks for about 50 years, you will end up with a society pretty similar to the one that inhabits the area today.

Of course the misunderstanding runs both ways, Greeks are equally unable to understand the Northern motivation and way of life, hence they thought faking accounting reports for the honor to join the Euro will go unpunished forever.

Europe is a really inspiring continent, isn’t it? Now let’s see how global warming will stir things up in the next 100 years. I promise you won’t ever get bored. :)

Posted on 13/07/2011 by Yanko Tsvetkov

35 comments

Newest | Oldest

Panos

Dear brother Yanko, I wish to congratulate you for the smart humour you depicted in your map and all your maps in general. I can but applaud at your graceful depictions of how most humans stereotype our world. The essence of your art, just like in ancient greek comedies was to unmask the way things evolve around us. You have achieved your purpose and I can say for one I got a good laugh out of your map! You are surely a well opinionated man and well educated. You must realize though that each man has evolved his own knowledge and some are offended by the way others depict it. There are many issues in history that remain unresolved and interlaced in moments of our past we will never decipher. The Balkans (Peninsula of Haemus) are a great example of how history and conflict created a melting pot that dozens of nations have risen from. Amongst them your Bulgarian and my Hellenic cultures. Who came first, said what and did what is not as important as how we cherish that knowledge and pass it on after having added more knowledge to it. We are all brothers on this planet and as long as we continue to see ourselves as different we will get nowhere. Life is great when you are happy and happiness needs a good laugh! So though I may agree on the many issues my compatriot Thomas noted and the many other Ellines out there defending our culture, the debate was off topic and out of place on your blog. May we all cherish what has been passed down to us and work together on bettering our future through friendship…and good humour! Cheers, Panos

Geo

Alphadesigner where are you from??? I would like to know your country. I didn't read all the stupid things your talking about but i interested about your origins. As i can understand from your name you are from eastern europe....Great!!!! Eastern countries were the main supplier for our sexual entertaiment so a BIG THANKS for that.

alphadesigner

That's a strange thing to be proud of, Geo. First, few people would be happy to admit they find it necessary to pay for sex. Second, importing sexual entertainment from abroad means your local one sucks, and third - if you were a tad more intelligent, you would see there's a big ABOUT button on top of this page. Attention to detail and logical thinking will help you get out of the crisis sooner.

Georgios

Congrats from a greek! fantastic work! I'd change though Italy with the common phrase that's being used in Greece -una faccia una razza- (one face one race). I would also like to add, that one of the very few ancient greek elements that remain pretty much the same till nowadays (at least in mind if not applicable in reality) is the anticonformist-elitism-sarcastic-nationalism that characterize us. we consider all the other barbarians, we are though self sarcastic about our defects, but (I hope that) we can still get invovled in any kind of war immediately if our very limits of freedom (=sun, beach, talking freely about anything, food, sex) are being pushed against. + 1 for ireland=cyprus as the other divided island of europe ps. in greece we work. a lot. but we don't produce.

Georgios

ps2. as far as the alphabet origin is concerned, there is a big argument going on whether the route was phoenician->greek or viceversa. LOGIC suggests that the origin is of course the greek one because every letter in greek has a strict fundamental meaning. thus meaning that the phoenicians had copied some of the letters (not the pronunciation) and they transformed them into something of their own. As in Alpha. verb alphein αλφειν to count. (the letter alpha written α' is number 1) As in gamma. seems mirrored phoenician gaml, but it's a sickle. because as the name suggests : (g)ama ti gi (αμα τη γη = craving the earth) ....the f*word in modern greek is the word used for reproduction in the antiquity!!! gamein (to F*) so in conclusion, the origin of the alphabet is not a thing to be discussed as a conspiracy theory argument, but mostly as one probable misunderstanding, that cannon be resolved easily at global academic level (because already dollars are flowing on indoeuropean studies, and nobody wants to destroy everything and start allover again...!!!) and we mustn't forget that in the mideval times there have ben consolified absurd theories about greeks that could not been confronted because we were occupied by turks for 368 years. such as the INVENTED erasmian pronuciation theory about greek. thank god that has been recently revised, and in schools among europe now ancient greek can be studied correctly with the proper EUPHONIA. ...greeks are stubborn they would never accept anything barbarian, bear in mind that modern and the so called ancient (classical) greek are 90% the same!

Georgios

(apologies for replying to myself! again) http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hdt.... TUFTS POINTS OUT THAT THE THORY IS NOT CERTAIN theories are to be revised. they are not STEREOTYPES (a greek word by the way!) excellent work!! again!

Thomas

I posted a reply which suddenly "dissappeared". I hope it was something technical... Anyway I repeat a brief summary of my reply. O.K. Sesklo is just a village. No one is to be blamed for lack of knowledge. Santorini (as my link describes) is thought by some to be the Atlantis Plato talked about. I quote: "Pipes with running water and water closets found at Akrotiri are the oOLDEST SUCH UTILITIES discovered. The pipes run in twin systems, indicating that the Therans used both hot and cold water supplies; the origin of the hot water probably was GEOTHERMIC, given the volcano's proximity. The dual pipe system suggesting hot and cold running water, the ADVANCED ARCITECTURE, and the apparent layout of the Akrotiri find resemble Plato's description of the legendary lost city of Atlantis, further indicating the Minoans as the culture which primarily inspired the Atlantis legend". But still the pyramids are better... On the alphabet: I quote from YOUR link: "When alphabetic writing began in Greece, the letterforms used were similar but not identical to the Phoenician ones and vowels were added, because the Phoenician Alphabet did not contain any vowels. There were also distinct variations of the writing system in different parts of Greece, primarily in how the Phoenician characters which did not have an exact match to Greek sounds were employed. One of these local Greek alphabets evolved into the standard Greek alphabet, and another into the Latin alphabet, which accounts for many of the differences between the two". So, the Phoenician alphabet DID NOT CONTAIN ANY VOWELS!!! The Greeks added them!! Damn! So then how was A-lf, pronounced? b-E-t? g-A-ml? d-E-lt? They couldn't, could they... I quote from my link: "To the amazement of Ventris himself, the deciphering of Linear B proved that it was a written form of Greek, in direct contradiction to the general scientific views of the times, and to Ventris' own hunch that it would turn out to be Etruscan. Chadwick, an expert in historical Greek, helped Ventris decipher the text and rebuild the vocabulary and grammar of Mycenaean Greek. Ventris' discovery was of immense significance, because it demonstrated a Greek-speaking Minoan-Mycenaean culture on Crete, and presented Greek in writing some 600 years earlier than what was thought at the time". Of course we all know what happened to the Myceneans after the Dorian decended... I will close and rest my case by saying only this: I have the utmost respect for ancient civilizations and their contribution to human culture. I value the Egyptians, the Phoenicians, the Mesopotamians, the Chinese and also the Mayas, the Azteks etc. for a simple reason. I am Greek and being Greek means to be hospitable, open to interact and to communicate with everybody as time goes by. And that is the way a small nation like the Greeks have survived for more than 5000 years, going through glory, wars, occupation and slavery. Nothing personal as well

alphadesigner

Of course you have utmost respect to other civilizations, Thomas. You just claim that all valuable discoveries are Greek, your people were the best in architecture, they were the best in philosophy, and pretty much everything else that deserves appreciation. Arguing with you is a lost cause by default, so like I said, I am not going to do it anymore. I'll just let whoever reads this have a laugh. If you are fine fooling yourself that your point of view implies tolerance, openness and respect, that's fine with me too. Make a blog, post articles, links, whatever helps your nationalistic pride reach even broader horizons. Here on this blog, you are a guest and I have the right to moderate and delete comments according to my preferences. I gave you the possibility to express yourself but this is not an obligation on my part, I am not a parliament, or a publicly owned entity, this blog is private and commenting here is a privilege I give to my visitors, not a right somebody can demand or complain about. Not only the last one, but also your previous 2 comments didn't appear automatically on this page - the reason is that the spam filter usually blocks all comments containing more than 2 links. I had to manually publish these blocked comments. So there is nothing "sudden" in the disappearance of your last. Since the discussion reached a dead end, I will prevent you from commenting further on this article and if you decide not to accept that and persist for some reason, I will block you entirely. If you're not satisfied with that, set up your own blog, it's easy.

alphadesigner

Thomas, to the best of my knowledge, Sesklo is a village. And when you go to visit the area, you can't see any ancient structure still intact. It doesn't compare to the Egyptian legacy. Or maybe it does but only in your head. Santorini? Are you having the Minoans in mind? No, it must be something else because it's much later and you are right - I haven't heard of this exact period. Is there something special I should hear about it, though? Because you have to come up with something more impressive than "major structures, some amongst them three storeys high with water pipes and water closets". Now let's read it again, hold hands and laugh because that's exactly what you wrote: "ma-jor struc-tu-res, some amongst them three sto-reys high with wa-ter pipes and wa-ter clo-sets". Now repeat after me: "The py-ra-mids are bet-ter!" And alphabet is not a Greek word, did you forget my link with the Phoenician alphabet and the names of its letters? Let's link it again, for posterity. Now let's read the names out loud for our visitor who for some reason won't click on it: 1st Phoenecian letter - called "alf" (meaning "ox") 2nd Phoenician letter - called "bet" (meaning "house") 3rd Phoenician letter - called "gaml" (meaning "camel") 4th Phoenician letter - called "delt" (meaning "door") Now let's see where the word alphabet comes from - oh, crap, it's two Phoenician words joined. Alfbet. How. Very. Greek. Now my friend, I'll spare you the rest of the humiliation and I will leave because I have better things to do. P.S. Nothing personal. :)

Thomas

O.K. mate you can call Sesklo a "village"! Nobody can be blamed for absense of knowledge. Be more carefull now. Don't tempt me to compare the Pyramids to Parthenon, I wont. But instead I'll urge you to take a look in the architecture of the excavations of Akrotiri in Thera (aka Santorini, hint it is in Greece). You never heard of it huh! Well it's a unique sample of Bronze Age civilization which thrived between 3000 to 2000 BC, and reached its peak in the period 2000 to 1580 BC. Some of the houses in Akrotiri are major structures, some amongst them three storeys high with water pipes and water closets! I bet you never heard of that have you? It was before the 1620 eruption of the Thera (Santorini) volcano. Read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorini#Minoan_Akr... and here http://projectsx.dartmouth.edu/classics/history/b... Bibliography on Akrotiri and its contribution to architecture is here: http://archaeology.about.com/od/aethroughalterms/... Let's see now..." some homo erectus also tried to heal a wound on his body and called it medicine"! Hippocrates was no homo erectus man read your palaeontology he was homo sapiens for sure. Even your Indian doctors today are taking the Hippocratic oath before they are allowed to practise medicine and it is originally written in Ionic Greek. More about him here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates#Direct_c... Let's go to the alphabet thing now. First of all "alphabet" is a Greek word to start with (alpha+beta). Secondly the Linear B (and A as well) are not alphabets my friend. They are syllabaries. That is, each symbol represents a unique syllable, not an individual sound. Linear B includes over 100 characters, and while most represent syllables, some are logograms or ideograms (representing entire words or concepts). It's like your favorite Chinese and don't bet all your money that they did not connect to the Phoenician alphabet because this is still to be investigated (see the discussion here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmus). More on Linear B here: http://www.greek-language.com/Alphabet-Linear%20B... C'mon :-)

alphadesigner

Thomas, I got confused. Is this a conversation of how old a civilization is or what's its actual contribution to culture? You clearly seem to mix the two. Muhammad lived around that date, yes. It took that many years to disprove Aristotle's misguided musings on medicine. I'm pretty sure some homo erectus also tried to heal a wound on his body and called it medicine but that doesn't mean his scientific legacy is worthy of this disproportionate honor we usually shower Aristotle with. Give me a break. And then I give you an example of Imhotep and you counter it with a... village? Seriously? The first known Neolithic village in Europe against the pyramids, who are still fine and dandy sitting in the desert more than 2000 years after your revered civilization completely died out? If I go down that road, what about Jericho, which was founded 2500 years before your example? Hint - it's in Palestine. And then giving examples of two dead alphabets? If they were so original and revolutionary, why didn't the Ancient Greeks continue to use them and had to borrow the Phoenician one, which came 500 years later? Talking about contributions... The simple fact is you have nothing to counter this. Random comments won't help at all.

Thomas

This is getting better and better all the time! I like it... Since you chose Wiki here goes: On Imhotep (around 2600 BC was he?) architecture and Bronze age: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesklo (that is around 6500 BC my friend) On medicine (Muhammad lived around 900 AD?): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates (around 600 BC, do the math) On the Phoenician alphabet (around 1000 BC?): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_A (1450 BC!) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_b (1300-1700 BC!!!) Funny indeed

Thomas

Your book my friend is very badly written, consider buying another one. There are no geographic accidents everything is related to geology and the climatic conditions after homo emerged as a primate species. As for Einstein it was you who brought him into the discussion not me. Of course I'm still waiting to learn from an over-educated non-nationalist person like you, some names, any names, from any culture, Chinese, African or maybe even Hyperboreans (by the way do you know what this word on your map means?) and their contribution to modern science and then we can talk further. Names not generalities... And speaking of China and imperialists how about Tibet or Taiwan?

alphadesigner

Thomas, you seem so indoctrinated it's scary. Have you ever come across the thought that not all cultures are so obsessed with individualism and vanity like ours? Have you ever read any other history except European one? You want names. As if any knowledge is only legitimate if you put a personal signature on it. But just for the sake of disproving your chauvinistic points, here are some people that managed to become famous as individuals in environments where individualism was almost a taboo. Think about that next time you engage in a conversation like this. Imhotep, the first architect, 2655-2600 BC. At the time he built his pyramids, the Ancient Greeks were stuck in the Bronze Age. Everything Greeks learned about architecture came from Egypt, by the way. Skip several millenniums and let's see who really started modern medicine and helped eradicate all the nonsensical delusions of Aristotle. It was an Islamic scientist, called Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi who was one of the most important figures in science worldwide and - surprise - a rationalist. Let's go back in time again and examine the concept of Zero. It was discovered in India, a land, where as I mentioned above, European individualism is regarded as illness, hence nobody really dared to attribute the discovery of something so fundamental for modern mathematics to a single person. Indians were so disinterested in having their "intellectual rights" recognized, that all the numbers we use today - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 are still called Arab. The Arabs however only transmitted them to us but never created them. And if one can say that we had our own ways of writing numbers, the Indian system proved way superior and it had something no other dared to dream of, namely a number that represented nothing. What else? I forgot the most beloved aspect of Ancient Greek culture. The alphabet. One fact that is rarely emphasized is that the Greek alphabet is an interpretation of the Phoenician one. The Greeks took even the names. This is why I asked you to tell me what alpha was and you obviously couldn't. Alpha is nothing but the Phoenician and Semitic al(e)f. And if you want to get acquainted with the whole alphabet and cannot find the link, here it is. Pay special attention to the names of the letters, you don't want to miss the similarity with the Greek ones. What else? Let's go to China. The topic is enormous, so you can cherry-pick certain achievements. [Edit: Or if you don't have the time, let's concentrate on 4 major inventions]. All this is not merely a proof that "some Egyptian or Phoenician or Chinese guy has done his part in that" as you arrogantly put it in one of your comments above, it's a proof that Ancient Greece, although extremely important, wasn't some enlightened exception. As for imperialism, it never ceases to surprise me that when confronted, many Europeans choose not to condemn it but to point out cases outside the continent. And sometimes they say a lot of ridiculous things, like saying the case of Taiwan is connected to imperialism of any kind. That was funny.

Thomas

I think we should keep the "golden ratio" (see link below) here my friend. What does nationalism and racism have to do with anything I said so far? Did I say anything about the DNA of Greeks holding the secret of the intelligence of all humans? Did I say that Greeks have a heavenly blessing or anything like that? Nationalism has nothing to do with my personal views or with ancient Greece whatsoever. It has little to do with modern Greece as well. Remember that it was modern Greeks that fought against the faschists and nazis while other neighboring countries (like Bulgaria for instance) fought next side to them. Nationalists are so narrow-minded and short-sighted individuals that cannot allow for any originality let alone of global effect of any idea. But objecting nationalism should not lead anyone to the other extreme which is to generalize and fail to recognise each civilization's contribution to human history. So to put things straight I didn't quote Einstein on his personal, religious or political views (with which I disagree by the way) but for his view on the relation of an educated person with everything that ancient Greece conveys. I don't think that the fact that 90% of all medical terms and almost all the math and physics symbols have Greek origin is due to nationalistic paranoia of the scientific society or a concpiracy of Greek-maniacs against the historical and cultural heritage of mankind. The impact of ancient Greeks to modern western society has been well documented and it's not just me who thinks that way http://curiosity.discovery.com/question/ancient-g... Have a good night (day)

alphadesigner

In my book, the word nationalism perfectly describes your points of view. One remark - it's not Greek-maniacs I blame for the overestimation of the contribution of Ancient Greek culture. The reason for it is just a geographical accident - of all the Ancient civilizations before the Romans, only the Greek one was European. That made it the perfect ace in the card deck of any European imperialist in the Colonial Era and even today it continues to be used as an argument of maintaining an arrogant, self-declared supremacy. Thankfully, China is starting to teach everybody a lesson. After all, they are the longest surviving civilization on the planet. I wonder if Einstein will consider them unique enough to put them in one line with his beloved Greeks. Whatever the outcome, the whole equation is irrelevant.

Thomas

I fail to see your clear point here my friend. I am talking about conceiving the idea of an atom when the smallest particle visible then was a grain of sand! Calculating the distance between earth, sun and moon before the metric system. Saying that the earth is orbitting the sun before the invention of glass (let alone telescopes)! Original ideas are (like it or not) conceived by humans with a name. I don't overlook the contribution of other civilizations in our modern world, but referring to a posh and a slimy paste might be a failure to produce names of people conceiving the ideas. I'm sure some Egyptian or Phoenician or Chinese guy has done his part in that, but can you produce any names in this debate (as I did) and not speak in general? Then maybe we can discuss a little further. And since you seem a rather educated person allow me to quote Her Einstein on the subject of Greeks: "(Einstein) The more I read the Greeks, the more I realize that nothing like them has ever appeared in the world since." "You read the Greeks?" I said. "But of course," he replied, slightly surprised at my amazement. And so I heard, partly from him and partly from Miss Dukas, that he reads the Greeks to Maja every night for an hour or so, even if he has had a very tiring day. Empedocles, Sophocles, Aeschylus, and Thucydides receive the tribute of the most advanced and abstract modern science every night, in the calm voice of this affectionate brother who keeps his sister company. "You know," I said, "that is great news. Young Americans, who have an idea of the pure scientist worthy of the comics, should be told that Einstein reads the Greeks. All those who relish the idiotic and dangerous myth of the scientist as a kind of Superman, free from all bonds of responsibility, should know this and draw their conclusions from it. Many people in our day go back to the Greeks out of sheer despair. So you too, Herr Professor, have gone back to the Greeks." He seemed a little hurt. "But I have never gone away from them," he said. "How can an educated person stay away from the Greeks? I have always been far more interested in them than in science." Source of the interview is here: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/paleopsych/200... Read carefully my friend ;-)

alphadesigner

I think I am starting to repeat myself but for the sake of clarity, I will try again and I hope this time you would be able to understand me: Conceiving an idea like the one about the atom is a great thing. I never said it wasn't. An equally great thing is the invention of the Zero by the Indians. Einstein can say whatever he wants, I admire his scientific work, not his personal opinions on race, culture and nationality. Don't think that by simply quoting a conversation, it will carry any weight in my eyes. And because you seem not to get me or my project at all, here's the deal - I despise nationalistic doctrines, even when they are dressed in cultural terms. This is why I make these maps - to expose the constrained, small and claustrophobic space that nationalistic minds live in. You are free to disagree but convincing me of the uniqueness of Greek civilization is as likely as me adopting Christianity. Nationalism is exactly that - a poisonous and ultimately useless religion.

Thomas

Well my comments were all about the original ideas and initial conceptions my friend. I did not mention Aristotle for his astronomical views, we all know he was wrong. But take a minute to look in his work on medicine, biology, politics and philosophy and take into account his means of observing nature at his time. If however you fancy astronomy I'm sorry, but Leonardo and Copernicus or Keppler still failed to produce the original idea of heliocentrism.This was expressed 1800 years before them by (guess who a Greek!) Aristarchus of Samos (check it out). As for the rest of the scientists mentioned by you (Albert, Niels and if I may add Scrondinger and Heisenberg) and the originality of their views, I would urge you to take a look at Demokritus and his atomic theory as well as his views on round Earth and the evolution of the universe (take a look). If you're still not bored by my "Grecian overwhelming science" I can tell you more about Pythagoras (on mathematics), Heron (on engineering and robotics) etc. Enjoying an intelligent debate as always. (alpha is the direct opposite of omega) :-p

alphadesigner

My objection is only about your over-emphasis on Greek culture. Objectivity shows that Ancient Greece was a culture among many others that came before it, coexisted with it, or came after it. It borrowed heavily from the Egyptian and the much more ancient cultures of the Middle East. I don't see why anyone should have any right to put Ancient Greeks on the special pedestal they are today. It was erected for them purely because of political reasons. We Europeans are notorious with our skills to twist history the way we want when it suits our imperial, political and economic interests. Hence the term "Western Civilization", when examined with scientific scrutiny, is an unfortunate amalgam of prejudice, sense of supremacy and - most importantly - ignorance. You mention Demokritus. Well, the only thing his "atom" has to do with our "atom" is the name itself. Now all of us know that atoms are not exactly the primary building blocks of matter, in fact, they are hardly particles in the way Demokritus imagined them. In that sense, using the term he supposedly invented is nothing but a homage. Or more precisely - it was, before Rutherford crushed these atoms and they spewed all those protons, electrons, neutrons... And then other noble men and women helped us smash even those "elementary" particles in a new set of pieces. Just the other week, the LHC detected neutrinos travelling faster than the speed of light, which, if proven without doubt, will overturn modern physics on its head again. Medicine? Developing an ability to distinguish a vein from an artery today can hardly get you any degree. I won't dare to undermine Aristotle's contribution to natural sciences but to say everything that came after him (and his teachers or students) is repetition and reinvention of his principles is like saying the Ancient Sumerians discovered the automobile because they invented the wheel. It's simply not true. The Islamic scholars in Baghdad during the early Caliphate had an equally impressive contribution, which today is undermined and almost forgotten, purely because of ideological reasons and frankly - lack of humility. To overestimate the importance of a special group is always a little bit shortsighted, especially when it is defined on an ethnic or geographic principles. Ancient Greece left a magnificent legacy in all aspects of human knowledge and arts but it simply isn't even remotely enough to put it at the center of what we call "Western World". Not because somebody else is worthy of that title but because this world has no center at all - it is a slimy paste of the intellectual riches of the entire globe, some home-made, others stolen, mixed in a very posh jar.

Thomas

"You’ve probably heard the statement that Greece is the cradle of Western Civilization. That’s bollocks. What we refer to Western Civilization today can be much better described as a Protestant Entrepreneur Civilization, and it definitely lies to the North, rather than the West". Well dear Alphadesigner, this is what I call really good sense of humor! Protestant Entrepreneur Civilization! You're really good...that is of course if you are actually joking. However, in the remote case that you are serious I must say that the only real bollocks is to call Civilization anything remotely connected with religion (Protestant in this case). There is nothing civilized about religion (any religion for that matter) and nothing about Western Civilization connecting to the North. Civilization is about Plato and Socrates, Aristotle and Pythagoras, Epicurus and Sophocles. The original ideas and conceptions of science and philosophy. All the others that followed simply expressed their principles in contemporary terms. And the sun is directly connected with all the above because it allowed humans to live outdoors, to study nature and capture the essense of life which is to be happy. Happiness as a measure of enjoying the things that really count keeping in mind that your stay here is short and there's no point in living so as to work but only working so as to live the real life. All the rest is really bollocks...(Btw as an Alphadesigner you should no what alpha means) Greetings from Greece

alphadesigner

Hi Thomas and thanks for your comment. :) I am definitely not a fan of religion but I wouldn't go as far to say it's not a component of a civilization. I would rather say that religion is like diapers. Once you outgrow the need of it, you should simply dump them in the recycle bin. Though we should be careful because according to my observations, at the end of one's life, there's a second childhood phase which may require diapers again. But that's in the realm of fate. ;) I am a bit alarmed though because you restrict philosophy only to its Ancient Greek flavor. I love it dearly but you must certainly agree there's nothing in the writings of Aristotle that even remotely resembles the modern understanding of the Universe, he was an... how was the word... outspoken fan of geocentrism and his world view , as you rightly pointed out, was blatantly copied by the Christian church like Pepsi copied the flavor of Coca Cola. It took a lot of pyres to overthrow this world view and Ancient Greece didn't help a lot in that fight. It took a Polish priest and a crazy Italian, aided by some hedonistic Dutch publishers, to cement the idea that the Sun doesn't rotate around us. I can also mention Einstein, Niels Bohr, Stephen Hawking and the numerous other heroes of science that can't trace their ancestry to our beloved region. :)) Thanks for reaffirming my idea about the sun though, I completely agree. And you are 100 percent right on happiness. Now tell me, what does "alpha" mean. :)

Giorgos

Kudos, alphadesigner, this is hilarious! Don't listen to those whiny people above me, perhaps they feel uncomfortable staring at themselves in the mirror. It's on of the few pieces about Greece that makes me smile nowadays. If i might offer criticism, we don't see Spain as part of the USW, if anything, they steal our olive oil and our tourists. Perhaps you should also swap the pimps (Amsterdam) with the snobs (Paris). Also, what happened to Norway? Isn't it the "Nation of tall horny blondes" to us? Cheers.

George Bazanis

Nope...that's Sweden... At least it used to be before it got replaced from Ukraine and Russsia...:-)

alphadesigner

Thanks Giorgos, I'm very glad it made you smile, that's the real point of the whole project. True, some titles can be changed, especially Spain. However, I live around Toledo and El Greco will raise up from the dead and kill me if I erase his name. I hope you understand. ;))

esra ilgin

talking about stereotypes...if the Germans were to relocate to Greece and live on hot white rocks for 50 years they would try to find efficient ways of remaining productive despite the heat.

alphadesigner

I'm not quite sure. In theory it may be true but when you get under the scorching sun and it starts hitting you and draining you out, things become a bit slower. At least for the people I know. :)

Giorgos

Thats a convenient theory, but no. Think of California.

alphadesigner

You mean the movie stars? They surely work hard. ;) Joke aside, I never claimed my theory was applicable to the US... but now that you mention it, it actually makes a lot of sense. Just remember the division before the civil war - and industrial North and a rural South. If thing are a little bit mixed today, it's probably because of air conditioning. :)

Global Greek World

Did you actually create the map? We have featured it in one of our posts too but had no idea of it's origin... http://globalgreekworld.blogspot.com/2011/03/euro... Here is one you might like too... definitely the kind of stereotype we like.. .http://globalgreekworld.blogspot.com/2009/07/global-greek-lifestyle-greeks-know-how.html Opa! :))

alphadesigner

Opa! Yes, I am the author. Thanks for featuring it and I really liked that story with the American in the link. :)

Vasiliki

your piece ois neither accurate nor funny how is mocking a nation in distress funny?? also, check your facts: according to oecd factbook, Greeks are among the most hard working Europeans but they are far less rewarded than their Northern counterparts http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/employment/average-a...

alphadesigner

My piece is not based on statistics and is not meant to be looked at through a scientific prism. You probably missed my neutral stance on the "hard working" philosophy. Personally, I don't praise it, I just present it as a choice and my message (which you were supposed to find at least funny) was that Northern nations enjoy life less than they really should and that their work ethic, even though it dominates the entire Western world, is not necessarily suitable for everyone, especially those of us who live in the South, where enjoying life is supposedly easier. Of course if we have to discuss the matter seriously, we can dive into an endless stream of accusations and counter accusations about whose way of life is better and who works more or not but the bottom line is that Greece has a very weak economy, corruption in the country is widespread, tax evasion is rampant and on such a background, following data from OECD is the last thing I would consider reliable. After all, the previous Greek government went so far as to falsify its financial data in order to get into the Eurozone. :)

Thanasis Politis

My friend i think you are over simplifying things. The whole 'sun' argument is at least childish to me, I am a greek by the way. The modern greek or neo-greek as we call ourselves is a fabrication of decades of corrupt politicians and a fake way of life that was induced to us violently down our throats. Believe me, I want to have a public sector that actually works, I want to have a healthy private industry that does not push secret agendas and political schemes. I envy the northern people for their achievements, I don't think that they are stupid to work and produce, because in previous ages so did greeks. Anyway it's a big big talk that i would gladly have with you.

alphadesigner

Of course I am oversimplifying. The whole project is called "Mapping Stereotypes.". You're supposed to take it with a sense of humor. :)